Shale Test

My main reason for not advocating moving Shale Test into MyFaces is
because it is implementation agnostic. 1.1-SNAPSHOT is even able to
load the implementation's configuration files!. That said, their has not
been a release in an while and a supported Shale Test under MyFaces is
better then the current state.

Shale contains other components, including Shale Dialog which I use,
that need to be included in this discussion.

Paul Spencer

Post by Kito Mann
Hello everyone,
At JSFOne we were discussing Shale Test, and again the idea of moving it out
of Shale popped up. With so little activity in the Shale project, I'd like
to bring up the issue of migrating it to MyFaces proper, or out of MyFaces
all-together. Thoughts?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3
* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

Paul Spencer

2008-09-24 20:40:53 UTC

Matthias Wessendorf

2008-10-01 08:23:16 UTC

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Paul Spencer

My main reason for not advocating moving Shale Test into MyFaces is because
it is implementation agnostic. 1.1-SNAPSHOT is even able to load the

I don't get that.
It would be a separate module, not part of myfaces impl, of course...

implementation's configuration files!. That said, their has not been a
release in an while and a supported Shale Test under MyFaces is better then
the current state.
Shale contains other components, including Shale Dialog which I use, that
need to be included in this discussion.

worth to discuss on a different thread, this is on test ;-)

Paul Spencer

--
Matthias Wessendorf

blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf

Greg Reddin

2008-09-24 20:53:19 UTC

First off, I should mention that Shale 1.0.5 is actually released.
It's available on the mirrors. The only reason it hasn't been
officially announced is that the website is in a state of disrepair.
I'm sorry I abandoned it, but i simply ran out of bandwidth. I need to
separate the 1.0.5 doc from the site itself so I can update the site
and then announce the release. Ironically, I feel the 1.0.5 release
could be GA quality if we could ever get that last little bit done.

Once that's complete, there's not much to do towards getting a 1.1
release out. So all that's to say that we are painfully close to
actually having something good, but we're just short on available
cycles.

Greg

Paul Spencer

2008-09-24 23:07:27 UTC

First off, I should mention that Shale 1.0.5 is actually released.
It's available on the mirrors. The only reason it hasn't been
officially announced is that the website is in a state of disrepair.
I'm sorry I abandoned it, but i simply ran out of bandwidth. I need to
separate the 1.0.5 doc from the site itself so I can update the site
and then announce the release. Ironically, I feel the 1.0.5 release
could be GA quality if we could ever get that last little bit done.
Once that's complete, there's not much to do towards getting a 1.1
release out. So all that's to say that we are painfully close to
actually having something good, but we're just short on available
cycles.

This is good news :)

Post by Greg Reddin
Greg

Paul Spencer

Gary VanMatre

2008-09-25 21:11:34 UTC

-------------- Original message ----------------------

Any contributions to the shale project are much appreciated. What do you mean by "out of MyFaces all-together"? Kito, do you have interest in supporting this library under the shale community?

Gary

Post by Kito Mann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3
* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
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Kito Mann

2008-09-29 03:06:35 UTC

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Kito Mann
Hello everyone,
At JSFOne we were discussing Shale Test, and again the idea of moving it

out

Post by Kito Mann
of Shale popped up. With so little activity in the Shale project, I'd

Post by Kito Mann
to bring up the issue of migrating it to MyFaces proper, or out of

MyFaces

Post by Kito Mann
all-together. Thoughts?

Any contributions to the shale project are much appreciated. What do you
mean by "out of MyFaces all-together"? Kito, do you have interest in
supporting this library under the shale community?

Well, there has been interest in supporting Shale Test inside of JSFUnit --
that's what I meant by "out of MyFaces all-together". Basically, I think the
community could use and updated and and active version of Shale Test, and
the Shale community doesn't seem to have the bandwidth (or interest) in
making that happen. Given the fact that a lot of MyFaces projects use it, I
could see how MyFaces may be a better place for it, *if* people in that
community have cycles for it. Otherwise, it may fare better somewhere else.

I certainly have interest in working on Shale Test regardless of where it is
(I have a nice little Spring integration class, for instance), but I don't
have the bandwidth to personally push the project forward.

Post by Gary VanMatre
Gary

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3

* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

Gary VanMatre

2008-09-29 14:51:26 UTC

-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Kito Mann
Hello everyone,
At JSFOne we were discussing Shale Test, and again the idea of moving it

out

Post by Kito Mann
of Shale popped up. With so little activity in the Shale project, I'd

Post by Kito Mann
to bring up the issue of migrating it to MyFaces proper, or out of

MyFaces

Post by Kito Mann
all-together. Thoughts?

Any contributions to the shale project are much appreciated. What do you
mean by "out of MyFaces all-together"? Kito, do you have interest in
supporting this library under the shale community?

Well, there has been interest in supporting Shale Test inside of JSFUnit --
that's what I meant by "out of MyFaces all-together". Basically, I think the
community could use and updated and and active version of Shale Test, and
the Shale community doesn't seem to have the bandwidth (or interest) in
making that happen. Given the fact that a lot of MyFaces projects use it, I
could see how MyFaces may be a better place for it, *if* people in that
community have cycles for it. Otherwise, it may fare better somewhere else.
I certainly have interest in working on Shale Test regardless of where it is
(I have a nice little Spring integration class, for instance), but I don't
have the bandwidth to personally push the project forward.

I see. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Shale welcomes anyone that is
willing to contribute to the project in the way of documentation or code
contributions.

Since the Shale project is not indirectly sponsored by a commercial entity,
we dont necessary have another product driving the release. Im certain
that Shale would be more than willing to work with the Jboss group within
the shale community.

Post by Gary VanMatre
Gary

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3
* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

Kito Mann

2008-09-29 23:22:40 UTC

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Kito Mann
Hello everyone,
At JSFOne we were discussing Shale Test, and again the idea of moving

Post by Gary VanMatre
out

Post by Kito Mann
of Shale popped up. With so little activity in the Shale project, I'd

Post by Kito Mann
to bring up the issue of migrating it to MyFaces proper, or out of

MyFaces

Post by Kito Mann
all-together. Thoughts?

Any contributions to the shale project are much appreciated. What do

you

Post by Gary VanMatre
mean by "out of MyFaces all-together"? Kito, do you have interest in
supporting this library under the shale community?

Well, there has been interest in supporting Shale Test inside of JSFUnit

Post by Kito Mann
that's what I meant by "out of MyFaces all-together". Basically, I think

the

Post by Kito Mann
community could use and updated and and active version of Shale Test, and
the Shale community doesn't seem to have the bandwidth (or interest) in
making that happen. Given the fact that a lot of MyFaces projects use it,

Post by Kito Mann
could see how MyFaces may be a better place for it, *if* people in that
community have cycles for it. Otherwise, it may fare better somewhere

else.

Post by Kito Mann
I certainly have interest in working on Shale Test regardless of where it

Post by Kito Mann
(I have a nice little Spring integration class, for instance), but I

don't

Post by Kito Mann
have the bandwidth to personally push the project forward.

I see. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Shale welcomes anyone that is
willing to contribute to the project in the way of documentation or code
contributions.
Since the Shale project is not indirectly sponsored by a commercial entity,
we don't necessary have another product driving the release.

That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-). What's
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

Post by Gary VanMatre
I'm certain
that Shale would be more than willing to work with the Jboss group within
the shale community.

The problem, though, is that Shale Test is part of a project that has
stagnated. So, even if Shale Test moves forward, it's difficult to get
traction if the whole project is perceived as stale. Do you see what I'm
saying?

Post by Gary VanMatre
Gary

mentoring

Post by Kito Mann
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3
* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3
* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

Greg Reddin

2008-09-30 15:23:04 UTC

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-). What's
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

Post by Kito Mann
The problem, though, is that Shale Test is part of a project that has
stagnated. So, even if Shale Test moves forward, it's difficult to get
traction if the whole project is perceived as stale. Do you see what I'm
saying?

If there are so many people out there who want to help move Shale Test
forward, then we would love for them to step up and start
contributing. Look at it this way: I use Shale in at least one project
at work, so I have a vested interest in it continuing to work. Now a
whole bunch of people from Project Foo think Shale needs to move
forward and that it can move forward better over at Project Foo.

But I've never seen code from the folks at Project Foo. I don't know
their attitudes or development styles. I don't know how they work with
others. I don't know if they will release it under a license I am
comfortable with. How can I agree in good faith to just hand over the
management of Shale to Project Foo when I don't know these things?

We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.

So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.

Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.

Thanks,
Greg

Rahul Akolkar

2008-09-30 15:34:28 UTC

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-). What's
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

If there are so many people out there who want to help move Shale Test
forward, then we would love for them to step up and start
contributing.

<snip/>

+1 to this and the bits below (and thanks to Greg for his patience in
writing thoughtful responses :-).

-Rahul

Post by Greg Reddin
Look at it this way: I use Shale in at least one project
at work, so I have a vested interest in it continuing to work. Now a
whole bunch of people from Project Foo think Shale needs to move
forward and that it can move forward better over at Project Foo.
But I've never seen code from the folks at Project Foo. I don't know
their attitudes or development styles. I don't know how they work with
others. I don't know if they will release it under a license I am
comfortable with. How can I agree in good faith to just hand over the
management of Shale to Project Foo when I don't know these things?
We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.
So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.
Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.
Thanks,
Greg

Matthias Wessendorf

2008-10-01 08:29:39 UTC

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-). What's
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

+1

I doubt it is good to be at Foo at all.

Post by Greg Reddin
We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.
So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.
Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.
Thanks,
Greg

I personally only have interest in test, that's what I use on my projects.
But if don't care about the rest.

So, could an "only" 1.1 release of test work ?

--
Matthias Wessendorf

blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf

Bernd Bohmann

2008-10-01 13:47:29 UTC

Hello,

Post by Matthias Wessendorf
I personally only have interest in test, that's what I use on my projects.
But if don't care about the rest.
So, could an "only" 1.1 release of test work ?

+1

https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-465
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-466
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-467
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-468

I would like to use Shale Test for MyFaces Tobago, but all patches have
only been applied to trunk. Should I resend the patches for the 1.0 branch?

Regards

Bernd

Kito Mann

2008-10-01 17:04:20 UTC

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-). What's
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

If there are so many people out there who want to help move Shale Test
forward, then we would love for them to step up and start
contributing. Look at it this way: I use Shale in at least one project
at work, so I have a vested interest in it continuing to work. Now a
whole bunch of people from Project Foo think Shale needs to move
forward and that it can move forward better over at Project Foo.
But I've never seen code from the folks at Project Foo. I don't know
their attitudes or development styles. I don't know how they work with
others. I don't know if they will release it under a license I am
comfortable with. How can I agree in good faith to just hand over the
management of Shale to Project Foo when I don't know these things?
We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.
So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.
Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.

Ok. I'll certainly ping Stan and company. But I think my sentiment is valid
even if we just move it to MyFaces. That, to me, would make plenty of sense
because plenty of the MyFaces projects use it.

--
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3

* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

Gary VanMatre

2008-10-01 14:48:06 UTC

-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Bernd Bohmann
Hello,

Post by Matthias Wessendorf
I personally only have interest in test, that's what I use on my projects.
But if don't care about the rest.
So, could an "only" 1.1 release of test work ?

I think we would need to vote on releasing just a 1.1 shale test library but I don't see any major issue there given the big fuss. Matthias, are you volunteering?

Post by Bernd Bohmann
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-465
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-466
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-467
https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE-468
I would like to use Shale Test for MyFaces Tobago, but all patches have
only been applied to trunk. Should I resend the patches for the 1.0 branch?

That's odd. Maybe Matthias had some reason for only applying these to the snapshot branch.

Post by Bernd Bohmann
Regards
Bernd

Gary

Matthias Wessendorf

2008-10-02 11:01:53 UTC

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Bernd Bohmann
Hello,

Post by Matthias Wessendorf
I personally only have interest in test, that's what I use on my projects.
But if don't care about the rest.
So, could an "only" 1.1 release of test work ?

I think we would need to vote on releasing just a 1.1 shale test library but I don't see any major issue there given the big fuss. Matthias, are you volunteering?

That's odd. Maybe Matthias had some reason for only applying these to the snapshot branch.

I did that, because I think that development should be done on trunk.

Bernd, any chance you guys can use an upcoming 1.1 ?
Otherwise, of course, I will apply these changes to the (out-dated)
branch as well.

-Matthias

Post by Bernd Bohmann
Regards
Bernd

Gary

--
Matthias Wessendorf

blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf

Gary VanMatre

2008-10-01 18:42:58 UTC

-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-). What's
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

If there are so many people out there who want to help move Shale Test
forward, then we would love for them to step up and start
contributing. Look at it this way: I use Shale in at least one project
at work, so I have a vested interest in it continuing to work. Now a
whole bunch of people from Project Foo think Shale needs to move
forward and that it can move forward better over at Project Foo.
But I've never seen code from the folks at Project Foo. I don't know
their attitudes or development styles. I don't know how they work with
others. I don't know if they will release it under a license I am
comfortable with. How can I agree in good faith to just hand over the
management of Shale to Project Foo when I don't know these things?
We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.
So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.
Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.

Ok. I'll certainly ping Stan and company. But I think my sentiment is valid
even if we just move it to MyFaces. That, to me, would make plenty of sense
because plenty of the MyFaces projects use it.

Well, we have several myfaces committers on the shale project. I'm not
convinced that moving the code there under different package names
would make the bits work better.

Post by Kito Mann
--
Kito D. Mann -- Author, JavaServer Faces in Action
http://twitter.com/kito99
http://www.virtua.com - JSF/Java EE consulting, training, and mentoring
http://www.JSFCentral.com - JavaServer Faces FAQ, news, and info
+1 203-404-4848 x3
* Sign up for the JSF Central newsletter!
http://oi.vresp.com/?fid=ac048d0e17 *

Kito Mann

2008-10-02 21:03:55 UTC

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-).

What's

Post by Kito Mann
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

Post by Kito Mann
The problem, though, is that Shale Test is part of a project that has
stagnated. So, even if Shale Test moves forward, it's difficult to

get

Post by Kito Mann
traction if the whole project is perceived as stale. Do you see what

I'm

Post by Kito Mann
saying?

If there are so many people out there who want to help move Shale Test
forward, then we would love for them to step up and start
contributing. Look at it this way: I use Shale in at least one project
at work, so I have a vested interest in it continuing to work. Now a
whole bunch of people from Project Foo think Shale needs to move
forward and that it can move forward better over at Project Foo.
But I've never seen code from the folks at Project Foo. I don't know
their attitudes or development styles. I don't know how they work with
others. I don't know if they will release it under a license I am
comfortable with. How can I agree in good faith to just hand over the
management of Shale to Project Foo when I don't know these things?
We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.
So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.
Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.

Ok. I'll certainly ping Stan and company. But I think my sentiment is

valid

Post by Kito Mann
even if we just move it to MyFaces. That, to me, would make plenty of

sense

Post by Kito Mann
because plenty of the MyFaces projects use it.

Well, we have several myfaces committers on the shale project. I'm not
convinced that moving the code there under different package names
would make the bits work better.

Okay. That's a fair point. I'm still concerned about the future of Shale as
a whole -- I guess that's the main issue... Where will things be in a year?

Gary VanMatre

2008-10-02 21:31:57 UTC

-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Gary VanMatre
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Kito Mann
That's fine, but I don't really see _anyone_ driving releases :-).

What's

Post by Kito Mann
the problem with letting Shale Test move somewhere else?

....

Post by Kito Mann
The problem, though, is that Shale Test is part of a project that has
stagnated. So, even if Shale Test moves forward, it's difficult to

get

Post by Kito Mann
traction if the whole project is perceived as stale. Do you see what

I'm

Post by Kito Mann
saying?

If there are so many people out there who want to help move Shale Test
forward, then we would love for them to step up and start
contributing. Look at it this way: I use Shale in at least one project
at work, so I have a vested interest in it continuing to work. Now a
whole bunch of people from Project Foo think Shale needs to move
forward and that it can move forward better over at Project Foo.
But I've never seen code from the folks at Project Foo. I don't know
their attitudes or development styles. I don't know how they work with
others. I don't know if they will release it under a license I am
comfortable with. How can I agree in good faith to just hand over the
management of Shale to Project Foo when I don't know these things?
We are commissioned by the ASF to manage the Shale project. You could
make a decent argument that we have not done a very good job of
managing the project. But we cannot recommend to the ASF in good faith
that the best direction for the project is to send it to somebody else
who we don't know.
So that brings us back to this: If people think Shale Test needs to
move forward then I would cordially and sincerely invite them to come
join the dev list and start submitting patches. Point me to the
patches that have not been responded to. Point me to the questions and
requests that are not being answered. When I see that I can begin to
give credibility to your argument that Shale would be better managed
elsewhere.
Just so I am clear: the motive of this post is not to be dramatic or
troll or anything like that. I want to see Shale move forward too. If
the best thing is for it to move elsewhere, then I will be the first
to vote for that. But I can't trust who I don't know. Send those folks
over here and let's engage in some discussion and get some stuff done.

Ok. I'll certainly ping Stan and company. But I think my sentiment is

valid

Post by Kito Mann
even if we just move it to MyFaces. That, to me, would make plenty of

sense

Post by Kito Mann
because plenty of the MyFaces projects use it.

Well, we have several myfaces committers on the shale project. I'm not
convinced that moving the code there under different package names
would make the bits work better.

Okay. That's a fair point. I'm still concerned about the future of Shale as
a whole -- I guess that's the main issue... Where will things be in a year?

Yeah, I'm not sure. I can't even predict who is going to own my mortgage in a
year.